7   François Gédigier

I talked with François over coffee and croisants in a hotel just off the Place d’ltalie in Paris. It was not long after he had cut the controversial film, ‘Intimacy’ for Patrice Chéreau whom he has been editing with since ‘La Reine Margot’.

François Gédigier (Courtesy of François Gédigier)

I was born in Paris in 1957. My father was a commercial salesman in the clothing industry and my mother was a secretary. I have a brother who is three years older than me. He works as a teacher in a centre for young disabled people.

I left school when I was seventeen, a year before the baccalaureate, but from the age of sixteen I was already working in a small theatre near Montparnasse. I was so happy to be there – I had arrived there by chance and spent my time acting, assisting, helping with the lighting. I was convinced I had found my vocation. The director of the theatre was a woman with a very strong personality and it took me two to three years to realise that the environment of the company was rather sectarian and I left. But I still love theatres, especially when the stage and seats are empty before the show – it is really beautiful.

At the same time I was acting in short films. I had a friend at INSAS¹ and he called me to play in his film. I discovered something that was really like an empty theatre – the set. I was a mediocre actor but I was fascinated by the work of the whole team – the lights, the sound – all these people who knew what they had to do.

So I tried to work in film and the first door to open was the editing room for ‘Diva’,² where I was offered the role of trainee assistant. Beineix³ was full of nervous energy (it was his first feature film) and Philippe Rousselot⁴ did the lighting (that blue light). All the team were new and young. The producer was Irene Silberman, the wife of Serge Silberman,⁵ who produced for Buñuel and Kurosawa.

RC:Were you cutting on the Steenbeck?⁶

FG:Yes, I was numbering by hand,⁷ but I was so happy to be there. I didn’t understand much about editing but I would have done anything for the film with the same pleasure, like searching the whole of Paris for pumpkins. Beineix had read that Hitchcock had used them to imitate the sound of being stabbed with a knife.

After that nothing; I tried to work on the set, but I didn’t like having to deal with so many people. So I was ready to leave with my father, take the suitcase and sell clothes. We had just put the suitcase in the car and we were coming back to close the house and the phone rang. It was Gaumont who were looking for a trainee to work on a comedy film called ‘La Chèvre’ by Francis Weber.⁸ Marie-Josephe Yoyotte,⁹ who was the editor that I assisted on ‘Diva’ had given my name. So there I met Albert Jurgenson.¹⁰

RC:Who was an editor and who was also a teacher?

FG:Yes, he was professor at INSAS in Brussels and then he was head tutor for the editing department at La Femis.¹¹

RC:And he wrote a book on editing – so did you learn from him?

FG:Yes a lot and first because he was an active supporter of the function of editing in the whole process of filmmaking. He was editing on the Moritone, which is a bit like the Moviola.¹² He was making marks, quickly and precisely, so cutting it at the assistant’s table I was able to follow his editing, step by step. He was famous for his bad humour, but he was respected and devoted to his work.

The second film with him was ‘La Vie est un Roman’ by Alain Resnais.¹³ I had already seen and liked ‘Muriel’ and ‘ Providence’¹⁴ – and I met a man who in a certain way is still a bit of a teenager. When people think about Resnais they think he is very intellectual and serious and he’s really funny. He’s really courteous and attentive to people working with him.

RC:Because in a strange way his films have become lighter too. When you think of Marienbad¹⁵ or Muriel – they are heavy films – as he’s got older the films have got lighter. Because he was an editor first, was he very much there all the time?

FG:No, he came by arrangement and worked with Albert for two or three hours, and then would come back three or four days later, which I think is a good way to work.

Then thanks to Juliet Berto,¹⁶ I worked with Yann Dedet¹⁷ for Jean-François Stévenin film, ‘Double Messieurs’.¹⁸ It was absolutely the opposite from what I had experienced with Jurgenson, except that they both gave the same importance to the function of editing. Where Albert had worked with an apparent total absence of doubt, Yann would everyday question the structure of the film, and I learned that everything had to be tried that might serve to support the story or the emotion.

Yann Dedet moved things forward during the 1970s and 1980s and his influence on the way of editing is visible today. The term ‘Yannerie’ invented by Stévenin, designates a form of editing that is particularly strange and elegant. I also did the sound editing on ‘Double Messieurs’ Stévenin has a real taste for sound. For instance, a washing machine becomes a plane or an ambulance at night in the mountains becomes a wind – it’s really beautiful. So I decided to become a sound editor. I worked on Peter Brook’s ‘Mahabarata’,¹⁹ creating sound from scratch, but not being totally realistic.

RC:What about music, you were once in a rock band?

FG:Oh! That was in 1978, at that time everyone was doing it. It felt like the real thing – singing and writing songs – groupies – the whole scene! Then I went to Brussels to sing in ‘Der Dreigrossenoper’²⁰ – a small part – that was fun.

RC:Is music still important to you?

FG:In the film yes – I spend a lot of time choosing music and cutting it, but live sound can be as effective. One can choose a take because of an accidental occurrence in the sound which allows you to make a connection to the next shot. I struggle a little to understand why there is a division between picture cutting and the rest. I try to ensure that the cutting copy is as close as possible to the final version. This applies of course to the kind of films that I cut.

RC:Then how did you make the leap from sound to picture editing?

FG:I was doing short movies at night or during the weekend with Pascale Ferran.²¹ She was at IDHEC²² with Arnand Despleschin²³ and he was looking for an editor for his first one-hour movie called ‘La Vie des Morts’.²⁴ It was a really good film with a lot of young actors, some of them coming from the Chéreau school.²⁵ It was a real pleasure the whole time – no pressure, no money and I learned so much. The film was released and it was a success.

*************

After ‘La Sentinelle’²⁶ with Despleschin, the first full-length feature for both of us, Chéreau called me for ‘Le Temps et la Chambre’.²⁷ I remember that someone who was living with me at the time took the call and told me ‘Patrice Chéreau called you!’ and I said ‘Oh – the real Patrice Chéreau?’

I knew him before when I assisted Jurgenson on a film in 1987. I left the film half way through, because I had been called to New York to do sound editing with Robert Frank. I’m still not very proud of that to this day, but we all make mistakes.

However when we met again it was like for the first time. I worked very hard, because it was my first time on Avid and I learnt as I did it. ‘Le Temps et la Chambre’ was a play by Botho Strauss.²⁸ Chéreau had created it at the Odeon Theatre and then re-staged it in the film studio. Chéreau was quick and fast and the first rough-cut I showed him was very close to the decoupage and he said ‘Okay, so that’s the rushes and now?!’ In fact he wanted something to react to and I understood very quickly that I had the freedom to suggest my own vision.

Then when we were mixing the film he said what are you doing after, and I said nothing, and he asked me to do ‘La Reine Margot’,²⁹ and I was really surprised, to be asked to cut such an expensive and important film, after having cut only two features.

RC:Was there a lot of material?

FG:A lot – they shot for six months and the film had to be ready for Cannes. It was hell. Added to the pride that I felt in working on a film of that scale, and the pleasure of editing such images and the collaboration with Chéreau, nobody could say now that I was a beginner. When you’ve done a film like that you’ve done it!

There was this strange experience after the release of the film. Miramax bought the film and they wanted to make some cuts. I began to work with their editor in New York, a specialist in re-editing foreign films, but it was unpleasant to work without Chéreau. Back in Paris with Chéreau we suggested our cuts. Of course because time had passed we found re-editing easier and we had a certain amount of pleasure. Editing is all about time and sometimes determination.

RC:Going back – what was your first experience in New York?

FG:The film called ‘Candy Mountain’ with Robert Frank and Rudy Wurlitzer.³⁰ I was the sound editor. It was a road movie, and the artifice of sound montage was not needed. But Robert Frank was nice and relaxed – teasing me a little.

Later, when I did ‘La Captive du Désert’ with Depardon³¹ I had the same problem of the lack of necessity for sound design. On the first day of the mix he said ‘Wah! I’m not Sergio Leone – I don’t want to put flies – I don’t want more sound’.

*************

In 1999, thanks to Humbert Balsan,³² Vibeka Vindelow³³ contacted me and I went to Denmark to edit the musical scenes in ‘Dancer in the Dark’,³⁴ shot with one hundred DV cameras. It started with a meeting at which we were shown a random montage of scenes. Then Bjork³⁵ explained what she was trying to say with the music and the choreographer was talked about the dance routines and Lars von Trier³⁶ was saying nothing – he didn’t want to say anything.

There was a young film student type there too and another guy who was working on the set with the hundred cameras, who was also an editor of music videos. Lars said ‘Okay, each of you will do your own version of the train scene’. I thought what am I doing here – am I supposed to make a competition with those people – shall I stay or go? I had a contract so I thought let’s stay and see what happens. I had read the diary von Trier wrote when he was making ‘The Idiots’³⁷ and I knew already that he was special.

It took two weeks to have something to show. For one take of six minutes you had ten hours of rushes. For five takes, fifty hours, and there was no indication from Lars.³⁸

RC:So these other two were also making their versions – how extraordinary.

FG:The reason given was that the approach was so new that they needed to gather every possible idea. There was something mystical about this one hundred camera idea. It took quite a while to accept that there were just scenes with a lot of material. Lars needed to know the trajectories of the characters in the film before being able to concentrate on the songs. After three weeks, we presented our work and then my relationship with von Trier became more normal. We stopped the comparing game and started to work seriously. Von Trier is funny and charming together with a fear of losing control.

RC:Then you came back to Chéreau – to ‘Intimacy’,³⁹ which I enjoyed very much. Was that a hard film to cut?

FG:In the beginning, yes a little – sex scenes are not my favourite, it’s a bit like killing – you know it’s not true – also it’s not particularly pleasant to watch and there was a lot of material, but the scenes were so precisely shot that after a while it became just a question of rhythm – like a conversation in fact. Chéreau had so much pleasure with the actors, because they were so generous in their playing, which is not so common in France.

There is also the pleasure of working with Chéreau – after several films. As time goes by he gains confidence in himself and in cinema; he knows how much he can ask of those who work with him and that for the technicians there is no question that he is the leader – the author.

RC:Do you think that cutting is instinctive?

FG:That’s why it’s very hard to explain why you have cut something the way you have. The answer is likely to be because I preferred it that way – a bit brief but no less true. As an editor you develop some habits – even if you try not to. I remember when we were cutting ‘La Vie des Morts’ the aim was never to cut back to the same shot – just because it seemed to us so boring and it’s still something I resist even if, when you are doing champ-contre-champ,⁴⁰ you are obliged to.

As for European cinema and American cinema, I don’t know if the frontier is situated there or between those films which believe in the existence of an audience, which comes with intelligence and sensibility and those products which are looking for the maximum return at the box office.

Notes

1.  INSAS – French speaking Belgian film school in Brussels.

2.  Diva – Jean-Jacques Beineix, with Wilhelmina Fernandez in the title role, 1981.

3.  Jean-Jacques Beineix – director, born 1946, also ‘Roselyne et les Lions’, 1989.

4.  Philippe Rousselot – eminent cinematographer, born 1945. Also shot ‘La Reine Margot’ for Patrice Chéreau.

5.  The Silbermans – Serge was born in Lodz, Poland in 1917 and died in 2003. He produced ‘Ran’ (1985) for Kurosawa and several Buñuel films from ‘Le Journal d’une Femme de Chambre’ (1964) onwards. Irene produced a handful of features apart from ‘Diva’.

6.  Steenbeck – The most successful German table editing machine – as reliable and long lasting as a BMW.

7.  Numbering by hand – Literally stamping the film rushes at foot intervals with a different number for identification in editing. Common in France for many years when other countries had moved to a mechanical device.

8.  ‘La Chèvre’-Francis Weber (or Veber) 1981 – Weber was famous as a writer of comedy film scripts, notably ‘La Cage Aux Folles’, 1978.

9.  Marie-JosepheYoyotte – Film editor from late fifties – e.g. ‘Les Quatre Cent Coups’ (1959), François Truffaut. ‘Le Testament d’Orphée (1960), Jean Cocteau and ‘Léon Morin, Prêtre’ (1961), Jean-Pierre Melville.

10.  Albert Jurgenson (1929–2002) – Film editor, notably for Alain Resnais.

11.  La Femis – French national film school in Paris which replaced IDHEC.

12.  Moviola – Upright editing machine which was originally constructed by the adaptation of projector parts – notable for their noise and small viewing aperture. Beloved of a whole generation, before the table machines took over. The Moritone was one of a number of imitations.

13.  La Vie est un Roman – Alain Resnais, 1983.

14.  Muriel (1963), with Delphine Seyrig, ‘Providence’ (1977) with Dirk Bogarde, both directed by Resnais.

15.  ‘L’Année Dernière à Marienbad – Resnais, 1961.

16.  Juliet Berto – Writer, also actress. Co-wrote ‘Céline and Julie Go Boating’ (1974) directed by Jacques Rivette, and played in several early Godard films.

17.  Yann Dedet – Editor, see interview in this book.

18.  Jean-François Stévenin – Double Messieurs (1986), most recently directed ‘Mischka’ (2002). Acted in many films. Was assistant director for Truffaut and others.

19.  Mahabarata – Peter Brook, adapted from the great Indian epic, 1989. Brook is a legend in the theatre – see ‘The Empty Space’ his book on the nature of theatre.

20.  Die Dreigroschenoper by Berthold Brecht based on John Gay’s ‘The Beggars Opera’.

21.  Pascale Ferran – writer ‘La Sentinelle’, 1992.

22.  IDHEC – The original French national film school.

23.  Arnand Despleschin – Director, also ‘Esther Kahn’, 2000.

24.  La Vie des Morts – Directed by Despleschin, 1991.

25.  Chéreau School – Patrice Chéreau, born 1944, is a theatre and opera director of enormous standing in Europe, from Shakespeare to Wagner. He is fast establishing an equivalent standing in the cinema.

26.  La Sentinelle – Arnand Despleschin, 1992.

27.  Le Temps et la Chambre – Patrice Chéreau, 1992.

28.  Botho Strauss – Writer, also adapted Gorky’s ‘Summer Folk’ for the screen in 1975, directed by Peter Stein.

29.  La Reine Margot – Patrice Chéreau, with Isabelle Adjani, 1994.

30.  Candy Mountain – Robert Frank and Rudy Wurlitzer, with Harris Yulin and Tom Waits, 1988. Robert Frank made a film in 1958, ‘Pull My Daisy’ which, apart from featuring the major ‘beat’ poets, included the first screen appearance by Delphine Seyrig, later to be Resnais’ leading lady in several films.

31.  La Captive du Désert – Raymond Depardon, starring Sandrine Bonnaire as the ‘captive’, 1990.

32.  Humbert Balsan – Very experienced producer who worked several times with Robert Bresson early in his career.

33.  Vibeka Vindelow – Producer, notably von Trier and other Danish ‘Dogme’ directors.

34.  Dancer in the Dark – Lars von Trier, 2000.

35.  Bjork – Born in Iceland, singer, composer, actress.

36.  Lars von Trier – Danish director. First international success with ‘Breaking the Waves’, 1996.

37.  The Idiots – von Trier, 1998.

38.  ‘One Take of Six Minutes’ etc. – Having worked on material shot on three cameras I find it hard to conceive getting my head around one hundred alternatives. I’m not even sure I can imagine how such a number could be useful.

39.  Intimacy – Patrice Chéreau, with Mark Rylance and Kerry Fox, 2001. Based on the book by Hanif Kureishi.

40.  Champ-Contre-Champ – Literally ‘field-counter-field’. Used to describe inter-cutting matching shots, most commonly close ups of two people facing each other.