2
I’ll Take Luck Wherever I Can Find It
I went back to my job at Bogart’s. I didn’t know what else to do, so I kept working while I tried to figure it out. Then I got lucky.
One night, I told another salesman that I couldn’t get any interviews at what I thought I wanted to do and that I didn’t even know how to begin a career. He told me he had a family friend who owned an employment agency and offered to arrange for me to meet him the next day. I was taken aback: I wasn’t really asking this guy for help; I was just talking about my situation, yet he had offered to help me find a job. I jumped at the chance.
The next day, I went to the office of Julie Pepper. I told him that I was having trouble finding a job and that no one wanted to interview me because my hair was so long. I asked him for advice, and he said, “I don’t think your hair matters; I think what you’re about is what matters.”
Like most good interviewers, Mr. Pepper instantly sized me up and thought of the fashion industry, which is not as conservative as other workplaces and would appreciate my personal style and fashion sense. He said, “I have something I think would be good for you. It’s a great company: Van Heusen.” “You mean shirts? Isn’t that an old man’s company?” I wasn’t excited, because to a young guy that company didn’t have much appeal: it seemed sleepy to me. He said, “It’s not just shirts. It’s a very good, solid company, and I think it’s the perfect place for you to start.” Mr. Pepper asked me to trust him. I did—mostly because I was desperate to get a real job—and I found out soon enough that Van Heusen was a public company and one of the top three shirt manufacturers in the United States. I don’t know if Jules Pepper specialized in recruiting for the fashion industry or if he had jobs in other industries in mind, but this was what he offered me. He also sold me on the company when he said it was looking for smart young people with fashion sense and he thought I would like working there.
Since that day, I’ve met many people who had a similar experience but didn’t listen to the person trying to help them. They thought they knew more than the person making the suggestion, or they didn’t like the company or the industry or the job being offered, and so they just ignored the advice. I don’t know what would have happened to me if I hadn’t accepted my coworker’s offer to meet with Jules Pepper or if hadn’t agreed to go on the interview that Mr. Pepper recommended. All I know is that interview led me to a company I worked at for 33 years as I climbed the ladder from the bottom all the way to the top, and I owe both of them so much for that.
Mr. Pepper was my first mentor, and I learned that you never can tell where or how a mentor may appear. Ever since, I’ve kept my eyes and ears—and my mind—open to new opportunities and new possibilities, and that mindset has never failed me. I firmly believe you should always answer when opportunity knocks, because you never know what or who is going to be on the other side of that door. I could just as easily have said “No, thanks” to the salesman at work, thinking, I don’t want to meet with an employment agency; I want an interview with an actual company that can hire me. Or I might have thought that it would be a waste of my time, that meeting this guy wouldn’t lead to anything. I believe, however, that you should always accept someone’s offer to help and make new contacts because you never know where they may lead. In my case, that meeting led eventually to my becoming the CEO of a $2 billion company. Jules Pepper also prepped me on how to answer the questions he thought I would be asked at the interview. Today, of course, everyone knows (or should know) that when you interview for a job, you have to be really prepared. You need to know something about the company that’s interviewing you, and it’s especially important to consider what’s important to that company and why you might fit the bill.
The first question Mr. Pepper asked me was, “What do you want to do?” I said, “I don’t have a clue.” That obviously wasn’t the right answer, but since I didn’t know what I wanted to do, I didn’t know how to answer this question. I tried again: “I’d like to work in a big company in New York.” Mr. Pepper said that wasn’t the right answer either. He told me I should say that I’m fascinated by the fashion business, that I’ve always wanted to work in the apparel industry, and that I really want to work hard and learn as much as I can about the business. I thought, Okay, I can do that.
Then he asked me, “How much do you want to make?” and I said, “As much as I can.” He said, “That’s not the answer. Let’s try again: How much do you want to earn?” I pulled a number out of the sky and said $25,000. He said, “That’s not the answer. The answer is, ‘It doesn’t matter.’ Of course, everybody needs money to live, but when you’re starting your career, that’s the last thing you should think about. Instead, you need to consider more important factors: Is this a good company? Is it in an industry you’ll like working in? Will they train you? Does this company promote from within? Do you have a chance to succeed? Do they treat people well?” I had never heard anyone talk in those terms, and what he said made a lot of sense to me.
His advice paid off. The very next day I had an interview at Phillips-Van Heusen (now PVH). The company was founded by the Phillips family in Pottsville, Pennsylvania, in the early 1900s. Originally, it manufactured shirts and sold them to coal miners as they exited the mine, but over the years the company had expanded its product line and locations well beyond that. It owned retail stores, a sweater mill, and a suit company, though shirts were still the cash cow of the business, bringing in $250 million a year at that time.
The office was at 417 Fifth Avenue, four blocks north of the Empire State Building in midtown Manhattan. I was supposed to meet with Sid Goldman, the vice president and general merchandise manager, but when I arrived, his assistant came out and said, “Mr. Goldman isn’t ready yet; would you mind waiting in Alan’s office?”
Alan was a very good-looking guy in his mid-twenties, an impeccable dresser, very sophisticated, with a great sense of style, which impressed me. I still had some misgivings about working for “an old man’s shirt company,” but when I met Alan and saw there were other young people working there, I started to feel like this company might be a good fit for me after all.
Alan was busy: he was packing up some things, as though he was going on a trip, yet he was willing to talk as he did so. I was only mildly interested in the conversation until I asked him where he was going, and he said he was going to Europe. I immediately thought of all my friends who were backpacking through Europe while I was looking for a job, and I asked him where he was going on his vacation. Alan said, “I’m not going on vacation; I’m going on business to Paris, Milan, London, all the fashion capitals. I’m a designer, so I travel several times a year to Europe and other places to find ideas and inspiration that I apply to what we do here.”
When he said that, I was sold. I made up my mind right then and there that if I could get to Europe on business by working for this company, I really wanted the job. Plus, I would be working in Manhattan.
Now I wanted to know even more. Since the job I was interviewing for was as an assistant designer, I asked Alan how long it had taken him to get from assistant to designer. He said, “About a year and a half.” I thought to myself, I don’t know how good this guy is, but I know I can do what he does. I was very competitive, and so I was already thinking that I would have to beat his record to get promoted. But first I had to get the job.
At that moment, though I didn’t really know it consciously, I was establishing my first goals in business. To succeed in business, you must know what needs to be done and how to get there. My first goal was simple: get the job! And then become a designer in less time than Alan.
By the way, Alan turned out to be Alan Flusser, one of the first gurus of men’s fashion. He went on to have his own house of design and write a number of the best menswear style guides that were ever written (I have them all in my home library). As I said before, you never know who is going to be on the other side of the door when opportunity knocks.
Fast-forward a half hour later, when I was called into the interview with Mr. Goldman. Since I now knew I wanted the job, it didn’t matter to me anymore what Van Heusen was or wasn’t. I was interested, and I was impressed. Now I just had to impress my interviewer.
Fortunately, I was dressed really well in a three-piece suit with a European cut. I had learned a lot about men’s fashion from selling high-end suits to our clientele, and one of the perks of working at a men’s store was that I could buy clothes for 50 percent off. The salesmen had to look good, and so we needed to wear high-quality clothes. And thanks to Jules Pepper, I had an idea of what this company was looking for and how I might be able to impress my interviewer.
Sure enough, the first question Mr. Goldman asked was, “What is it you want to accomplish?” With Mr. Pepper’s coaching in my head, I answered, “I’m fascinated by the fashion business and have always wanted to work in this industry. I want to learn. I want to be with a good company that is proud of its products and is willing to train someone like me who will work hard and smart to do whatever is needed.” Then he asked me, “Do you have an idea what you want to earn?” I replied, “Money is not an issue with me; it doesn’t matter. What matters is learning. I want to learn and contribute. I’m sure the money will take care of itself.”
Every question Mr. Goldman asked me was one that Mr. Pepper had given me the right answer to. I’ve often said, “I know what I know, and I know what I don’t know.” I was always grounded, and to this day I don’t care where the next good idea comes from. Jules Pepper talked to me for only about 30 minutes, but in that short time he taught me valuable lessons: Be precise and focus only on the important issue or issues. The first job should be all about learning. Have a goal: get the job!
Mr. Goldman hired me that day as an assistant designer (I was essentially a clerk). I was so excited that I immediately called my mother: “You’re never going to believe this! I got the job—with a salary of $8,500 a year. And not only that, I’m on the executive payroll!” I didn’t know what that meant; I only knew it sounded good. It wasn’t until later that I discovered it meant I was exempt from overtime pay for the zillions of hours I would work, so I was the lowest-paid guy in the company. (Of course, over time I got even, but that’s getting ahead of the story.)
It didn’t matter what they were paying me: I was on my way. That entry-level job led to more and greater responsibilities over the course of 33 years. I started at the bottom and worked my way up all the way to the top. I’ve often heard the expression “The harder I work, the luckier I get.” I don’t know who said it, but it absolutely applies to my life and career. As a result, I have a few lessons of my own I’d like to pass on to you.
When you’re interviewing for a job, you need to work hard to understand who you’re going to be meeting with and what might be important to that person. If you’re interviewing for a job with a particular fashion or luxury brand, there are many places you can research that brand and get a sense of what’s important to it, and I don’t mean just doing research on the Internet. Yes, it’s important to go online, look at the company’s website, and read everything you can about the company you’re interviewing with, including all the articles written about it. Know who the CEO is and who some of the top people at the company are and see if you can find anything written about them too. Google your interviewer (if you know in advance who you’ll be meeting with) and see if there are any articles about him or her. Find out what the CEO and the president and other key people talk about when they’re interviewed by the media and learn what they find important so that you can discuss that if you have the opportunity during your interview. Look at the company’s advertising to get a sense of how it presents itself and what it is trying to convey to its customers.
However, if you’re interviewing for a brand that has retail stores or is sold through department stores or chain stores, you also need to visit as many of those stores as you can before the interview. Ask the people working there, How’s business? How’s traffic? When do you get new deliveries? When do you put merchandise on sale? What are your best items? If something is out of stock in my size, can you get it for me? Do you ship overseas?
Then come up with your own point of view about what works and doesn’t work in the store, what impresses you and what puts you off. Look at the way the people who work there are dressed and think about whether their clothing and fashion sense and style represents the brands they’re selling—or doesn’t. Many luxury brands have their employees wear uniforms: Do you know why? In the world of fashion, it’s easy to do this type of research, so don’t ignore it and think you can talk your way to getting a job simply by reading about the designer, wholesaler, or retailer you’re interviewing with.
For some jobs, it’s more difficult to do this type of research, but in many industries, especially anything in consumer products—automobiles, books, computers, electronics, food, furniture, and office supplies, to name just a few—it’s easy to get a sense of a company’s products. If you’re interested in working at Colgate-Palmolive, look at Colgate toothpaste and the many other products it makes. Look at the packaging: see how the company presents itself and its product. Look at what the point of differentiation is: How is Colgate different from other toothpastes on the market? This is what you need to know so that you’re prepared for an interview.
In my case, I had the benefit of talking to someone who knew the company I was going to interview with. Jules Pepper advised me what was important to the company and what they would be looking for, and having that information in advance helped me get the job. Some people might say I just got lucky by meeting Mr. Pepper, but as the chapter title says, I’ll take luck wherever I can find it. That good fortune merely got me an interview. I still needed to prove myself and get the job: I had to be convincing. They had to see the excitement in my eyes, the interest and the energy I would bring to my work. And once I got the job, I had to work hard to do well.